Curse

Loviatar · Apr 04, 2007, 06:02 PM // 18:02

one theme running through all these threads

if i cant transfer my top stat character with all my uber expensive items that

i worked so hard for.....
i earned all this stuff......
i wasted all this time........
i wasted all this work....

translation

i am a big, rich, powerful, important frog in a small pond called GW1

in GW2 i will be a small, poor, weak, im-potent frog in a new big lake

if i cant start out at the top as an elite character i quit

Bryant Again · Apr 04, 2007, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

even if that 2 million gold FOW armor comes across it will be level 20 stat armor in a level 100 (or higher)stat world.
it will make nice STARTER armor but there is no way Anet will boost that armors stats a single point.

same for that million gold shield/weapon/etc.

nice looking starter axe you have but here is a better stat axe i just picked up you can have for free

There's no way to determine anything at this point. Maybe they'll let FoW armor come over, and they'll update the sets to the highest AR rating.

I'm saying this to prove a point. I'm not sounding hopeful. I don't want them to do that, a fresh start is best. But we don't know what ANet will decide to do.

Loviatar · Apr 04, 2007, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

There's no way to determine anything at this point. Maybe they'll let FoW armor come over, and they'll update the sets to the highest AR rating.

I'm saying this to prove a point. I'm not sounding hopeful. I don't want them to do that, a fresh start is best. But we don't know what ANet will decide to do.

one general thing i can make a flat statement on is this.

they are not going to create a new game (which they said this is) with a prepositioned elite class of players.

so whatever comes over will be nice but not really impact all those new players they are hoping for.

speculation i admit but the very rich affected the most are only a tiny section of the existing player base and nothing compared to what they will be hoping for

Frostlight · Apr 04, 2007, 06:14 PM // 18:14

For me personally? The story for the most part, the rest (titles, appearance etc.) being there for support and gives a sense of continuity - it would be silly to say your character did continue the adventure except he now looks totally different and has nothing to show that he was from the previous campaign, cosmetic or otherwise.

I would leave the feasibility of transferring appearance to the developer itself. But I think a reasonable effort can be made. Nevermind the player's character - major NPCs have often evolved in looks as technology advances. Lord British is still Lord British throughout the entire Ultima series.

Lest I give an impression that I'm gravely concerned over this, I'm actually not. My main point is disagreeing with the blanket dismissals of character transfer as a valid concept. My stance is similar to Croix Raul's - GWEN would be a nice finish to the series, and there's nothing that compells me to continue onto GW2 based on the current information. If GW2 did turn out to be great by itself, I might still get it - but it would be as a new game, not as a sequel.

A similar situation would be, if Factions and Nightfall did not have the ability to link accounts with Prophecies, meaning you have to create new characters to play those campaigns, I and I believe quite a few other people would have much less incentive to buy them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Frostlight:

I guess I just don't see where you're coming from... what exactly do you want to transfer over? Your character will NOT look the same no matter what... the new Graphic engine will change your character's appearence.

Look, I appreciate Role-playing. I've played my fair share of role-playing games. So, I understand the desire to continue to play the exact same character forever...

BUT, what makes your character special? The few choices you picked for a physical representation? The Profession and skills you have? The items you carry?

No, these are just Pixels, nothing more.

There is obviously something more, something that exists beyond the pixels, for you to care so much about this character.

And that's something you should be able to carry over to Guild Wars 2.

EDIT:

I wanted to add a little something about my opinion of true role-playing games, and computer RPGs.

IMO, most so-called computer RPGs are nothing more than pretty looking stat machines. There's virtually no "role-playing" at all, Missions are usually linear, with no real choices (or choices that branch into 2 different endings, or worse, the same ending!). Quests are "kill [a number] of [a creature]" or "take item X to person A". I guess this is one reason I prefer Prophecy over all the other games, you could run to almost any area of the game (except the Fire Isles, and the Desert). You were free to explore, do missions in different order, etc.

I hope people complaining about their characters worry less about whether a particular set of pixels are translated into a new form, and care more about the actual role-playing experiences Guild Wars 2 will (hopefully) provide.

Croix_Raul · Apr 04, 2007, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

one theme running through all these threads

if i cant transfer my top stat character with all my uber expensive items that

i worked so hard for.....
i earned all this stuff......
i wasted all this time........
i wasted all this work....

translation

i am a big, rich, powerful, important frog in a small pond called GW1

in GW2 i will be a small, poor, weak, im-potent frog in a new big lake

if i cant start out at the top as an elite character i quit

Anyway i think you got the last part wrong its looking for greener pasture and your language is so what Offensive i wonder if admin is looking

Croix_Raul · Apr 04, 2007, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Life is short, i guess i will be going out to smell the roses from now on

Mordakai · Apr 04, 2007, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostlight

For me personally? The story for the most part, the rest (titles, appearance etc.) being there for support and gives a sense of continuity - it would be silly to say your character did continue the adventure except he now looks totally different and has nothing to show that he was from the previous campaign, cosmetic or otherwise.

Good point. Which is probably why Anet decided not to allow characters to transfer even though they'd look different, have different items, and really not be the same character. Instead we have sucessors to our heroes, which will continue in the spirit of their ancestors, and perhaps with some "inheritances" as well. (More info to come on this aspect).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostlight

I would leave the feasibility of transferring appearance to the developer itself. But I think a reasonable effort can be made. Nevermind the player's character - major NPCs have often evolved in looks as technology advances. Lord British is still Lord British throughout the entire Ultima series.

Well, it's easy to retranslate NPCs. You just need to redo "x" amount of models.

Remember, there are millions of Guild Wars characters - several for each player. That's a monumental undertaking, and one that would require substantial resources. Of course, it could be done, but why? What's wrong with the present idea of inheritances?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostlight

Lest I give an impression that I'm gravely concerned over this, I'm actually not.

Well, that's a relief!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostlight

My main point is disagreeing with the blanket dismissals of character transfer as a valid concept. My stance is similar to Croix Raul's - GWEN would be a nice finish to the series, and there's nothing that compells me to continue onto GW2 based on the current information. If GW2 did turn out to be great by itself, I might still get it - but it would be as a new game, not as a sequel.

I suspect many will do the same. GW2 obviously needs to earn it's own way. It can't rely on previous users to succeed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostlight

A similar situation would be, if Factions and Nightfall did not have the ability to link accounts with Prophecies, meaning you have to create new characters to play those campaigns, I and I believe quite a few other people would have much less incentive to buy them.

Hmm, I don't think that's a fair comparison at all.

No one is advertising Guild Wars 2 as the next "Chapter" of Guild Wars, like Factions or Nightfall.

Guild Wars 2 is a pure sequal. It will be related to the original, like say the movie Aliens is related to Alien. But, they are totally different movies, and you don't need to see both to appreciate one or the other.

So, we'll see what Guild Wars 2 has to offer. It has to stand on it's own.

Now, I redirect everyone to this thread http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10138564

which has new info on inheritances:

Quote:

Originally Posted by fRag_Doll

Pretty much the same news as we've already got, but I did find a couple items of interest.

Hall of Monuments will be acquired in the early portions of GW:EN.
Each accomplishment will be recorded in the HoM as physical monument. (statues I guess)
GW2 characters who "inherit" items from your current GW characters will gain an early advantage in GW2. (sounds like 'inherited' armor will have some AC)
Companions: Customisable NPCs (similar to Heros) that do not take up a party slot. Each player can bring a single Companion while questing. Players that do not use Companions will have Buffs available.
GW2 is being specifically designed to work well for both solo and group play.

All of the points outlined above were taken from direct quotes of Jeff Strain himself.

So, yeah, looks like veteran players will get an advantage, if this is true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Croix_Raul

Life is short, i guess i will be going out to smell the roses from now on

I'll be smelling the Red Iris, with Gwen.

Onarik Amrak · Apr 04, 2007, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Hmmmm....

I think the sniffing those flowers GIVE you a red iris if you get what I mean.

That's the truth right there! Gwen is a junkie!!!

Frostlight · Apr 04, 2007, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Good point. Which is probably why Anet decided not to allow characters to transfer even though they'd look different, have different items, and really not be the same character. Instead we have sucessors to our heroes, which will continue in the spirit of their ancestors, and perhaps with some "inheritances" as well. (More info to come on this aspect).

In a lot of cases (books, rpgs, movies), we may miss the original characters, but the story and premise are strong enough to hook the audience for the sequels. Sadly, this doesn't seem to be the case for GW2 (IMHO of course).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Well, it's easy to retranslate NPCs. You just need to redo "x" amount of models.

Remember, there are millions of Guild Wars characters - several for each player. That's a monumental undertaking, and one that would require substantial resources. Of course, it could be done, but why? What's wrong with the present idea of inheritances?

It's not like they have to transfer a million characters one by one. Each character is basically 2 index numbers pointing to a set of faces and hairstyles, plus 3 variables indicating height, hair and skin colors. They just have to adapt the existing faces and hairstyles to the new engine, and make sure that the mapping is correct after character transfer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I suspect many will do the same. GW2 obviously needs to earn it's own way. It can't rely on previous users to succeed.

Hmm, I don't think that's a fair comparison at all.

No one is advertising Guild Wars 2 as the next Chapter of Guild Wars.

Guild Wars 2 is a sequal. It will be related to the original, like say the movie Aliens is related to Alien. But, they are totally different movies, and you don't need to see both to appreciate one or the other.

So, we'll see what Guild Wars 2 has to offer. It has to stand on it's own.

Actually, I think that a strong title can and does make up for weaker sequels that would not have stood well on their own (or give an additional boost to decent sequels). Alien 3 and 4 are pretty good examples that benefit from the franchise established by 1 and 2.

So, what I was trying to say with the Factions/Nightfall example was that, if I couldn't carry my Prophecies characters over for those games, I very well might not have bothered. Basically, each title would be freshly evaluated as to whether it's the best way to spend my time, without any special need/desire for the development or closure of the series. Character is of course not the only thing that binds a series together, but for GW it is for me (see my other point above).

MSecorsky · Apr 04, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

First of all, knowing ANet as well as we don't, everything speculated here is likely wrong. That being said...

I'd speculate that the "take them out and use them" and "unlock" is not referring to a direct transfer, but more allowing a copy through. In other words, the original item stays in GW1, but a copy of (in my case) a Fiery Platinum Longbow of Fortitude (req 8, 15^50) would also be available for the character that is linked to the character in GW1 that created the monument with the bow tied to it.

Transferring an item implies it goes away in the original game. Unlocking the item in GW2 implies that the original stays put and a copy is made in GW2.

terminatorofhell · Apr 04, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24

can you keep you GW1 characters? maybe they should put a GW1 tab and a GW2 tab so you can play both in one account and keep your beloved characters

Knightsaber Sith · Apr 04, 2007, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Of course you can keep them, not like they'd up and disappear when GW2 went live..

aubee · Apr 04, 2007, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostlight

Lest I give an impression that I'm gravely concerned over this, I'm actually not. My main point is disagreeing with the blanket dismissals of character transfer as a valid concept. My stance is similar to Croix Raul's - GWEN would be a nice finish to the series, and there's nothing that compells me to continue onto GW2 based on the current information. If GW2 did turn out to be great by itself, I might still get it - but it would be as a new game, not as a sequel.

A similar situation would be, if Factions and Nightfall did not have the ability to link accounts with Prophecies, meaning you have to create new characters to play those campaigns, I and I believe quite a few other people would have much less incentive to buy them.

I can see your point somewhat. Nothing compels me to buy GW2. But if they kept releasing new GW content I'd keep buying it. So why would I not buy GW2 if it's as good as GW except better? I don't mind starting over at a low level in a new game. I started an assassin and rit at 1st level in Factions and a paragon at 1st level when NF came out. No problem.

Going through the game is what it's about for me. One thing I'd like to see in GW2 is a much greater ability to customize each character's appearance so that they can each really look unique. And one of my concerns about GW2 is that the much higher level cap will promote players sticking to one character in order to maximize one's level. That might take away some of the fun in GW with playing multiple characters. But as long as they have good content and don't significantly change the game mechanics in a negative way, I'm on board for GW2.

Mordakai · Apr 04, 2007, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostlight

It's not like they have to transfer a million characters one by one. Each character is basically 2 index numbers pointing to a set of faces and hairstyles, plus 3 variables indicating height, hair and skin colors. They just have to adapt the existing faces and hairstyles to the new engine, and make sure that the mapping is correct after character transfer.

For someone not "gravely concerned", you sure sound like you are!

(j/k I know what you're saying)

To be clear, I thought you decided that looks alone would not be enough. You wanted items and basic professions to transfer over as well, correct? I was including that in my analysis (sorry I wan't clearer).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostlight

Actually, I think that a strong title can and does make up for weaker sequels that would not have stood well on their own (or give an additional boost to decent sequels). Alien 3 and 4 are pretty good examples that benefit from the franchise established by 1 and 2.

Hmm, piece-of-crap Alien 4 benefits from Alien; yet Guild Wars 2 does not benefit at all from Guild Wars. Not sure where you're going with that analogy, sorry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostlight

So, what I was trying to say with the Factions/Nightfall example was that, if I couldn't carry my Prophecies characters over for those games, I very well might not have bothered. Basically, each title would be freshly evaluated as to whether it's the best way to spend my time, without any special need/desire for the development or closure of the series. Character is of course not the only thing that binds a series together, but for GW it is for me (see my other point above).

You missed my main point. Anet specifically sold Factions and Nightfall as both stand-alone AND direct links to each other. That's how they were advertised, so if they didn't link, that would be, well, bad.

The premise of "what if" they didn't link goes against the whole financial plan of Guild Wars. So, no, if they did that I doubt Guild Wars would have survived.

But, now they have a nice base of players, and good press, they can afford to stop making Chapters for Guild Wars, and focus on Guild Wars 2, which will also have some sort of expansions that will link. In that way, it's not changing.

It sounds like you want your cake and for it to be nutritious, too. You want all the carry-over from Guild Wars (weapons, armor, skills, professions, looks, etc); but you want all the new benefits of Guild Wars 2: New graphics, new mechanics, new items.

As far as we know, the two are not totally compatible. Now, it looks like we might be able to bring some items along after all. Does that change your opinon at all?

agk512 · Apr 05, 2007, 12:03 AM // 00:03

sigh, this is ridiculous. why are they even bothering at making a new game?! this is what i hear from this

its a brand new game!! but u can bring over all of the items that u slaved over from the first game! so....its not such a brand new game, just another EXPANSION. i see no reason for making this new game, why not just have a uber time portal that takes u to the future in: Guild Wars: Another lame expansion that uses the same formula as all the other games that has this really cool time portal that will take u to the future so u can save everybody in the same old fashion way!!! yay!! and u can also climb walls 0_o

ALSO, i dont want to see on launch day all of the uber players from the land before time with their FoW armor and perfect weapons. I mean, take this into consideration. all armor (and some weapons) are CUSTOMIZED for your character. shall i define the word customized for you guys?
this is the dictionary definition of the word, customized: to modify or build according to individual or personal specifications or preference

i will put it in my own words now: the lump on your shoulder that you got when that kid hit you with a pole, that happens to stick out 3 inches from your body, yea, your armor was customized so that it gently wrapped itself around that so it didn't cause you pain as you were whacking people with your sword. oh yea, and dont forget the time that undead from kryta cut off your toe. your boot happens to have a steel toe where yours should be.

heres another personal definition of the word customized. it comes from what i like to call, my common sense: if other players cannot where your armor, then for what crazy reason would you think that your great-great-great-great grandson/granddaughter could wear it also?!

cmon guys! gw2 doesnt come out for at least another 2 years! your treating your pixled weapons and armor like they were your own kids! once you get over the fact that your precious pixles are not going to live to see the new game, and you turn your common sense switch back on, you will realize that if you are able to transfer all of your belongings over to the new game would RUIN the community, it would RUIN the economy, and most of all, it would make me, and a lot of other fans not buy the game.

Yaga Philipe · Apr 05, 2007, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesmerman

I think Anet is willing to reward players who are established in Guild Wars 1 for buying Guild Wars 2. They have already anticipated people like me, who will most likely be unwilling to purchase GW2 if it doesn't give me the proper respect for having played Guild Wars as much as I already have.

Why do you think you should get so much respect for playing a game? Why would you not purchase GW2 just because you don't get to keep your stuff from GW1? I'm sorry, but if you're like that in real life, I feel sorry for you. You don't get to keep you position in a job if you quit it and get a new one. You wouldn't get to keep the clothes you wore in the 1900s if you came back to life in this age. You can't keep stuff from your old house and bring it to a new continent and country. Just because you did stuff now, doesn't mean you have to get recognized for it. You should be feeling lucky that Anet is even providing a hall of monuments for you.

Sorry for the way it sounds harsh and mean, it's the only way to get my point across. Also, sorry if someone already said this.

HawkofStorms · Apr 05, 2007, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostlight

In a lot of cases (books, rpgs, movies), we may miss the original characters, but the story and premise are strong enough to hook the audience for the sequels. Sadly, this doesn't seem to be the case for GW2 (IMHO of course).

We don't even know what the premise is yet!!! More random doom and gloom threads about a game 2 years away.

Croix_Raul · Apr 05, 2007, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

We don't even know what the premise is yet!!! More random doom and gloom threads about a game 2 years away.

Guess we are bored and self entertaining ourself in the forum

Frostlight · Apr 05, 2007, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

For someone not "gravely concerned", you sure sound like you are!

(j/k I know what you're saying)

To be clear, I thought you decided that looks alone would not be enough. You wanted items and basic professions to transfer over as well, correct? I was including that in my analysis (sorry I wan't clearer).

I'd consider storyline and looks the most important. Items and titles would help so far as they serve as indicators of someone having played GW1. Professions and attributes, well that would really depend on how GW2 would work - sequels tend to be bigger and/or more flexible though, e.g. classless system or more subclasses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Hmm, piece-of-crap Alien 4 benefits from Alien; yet Guild Wars 2 does not benefit at all from Guild Wars. Not sure where you're going with that analogy, sorry.

They both benefit, but GW2 to a lesser degree at least in one regard: Alien 4 tried to bring the main character back. People did care about that (at least before they saw the actual movie!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

You missed my main point. Anet specifically sold Factions and Nightfall as both stand-alone AND direct links to each other. That's how they were advertised, so if they didn't link, that would be, well, bad.

The premise of "what if" they didn't link goes against the whole financial plan of Guild Wars. So, no, if they did that I doubt Guild Wars would have survived.

But, now they have a nice base of players, and good press, they can afford to stop making Chapters for Guild Wars, and focus on Guild Wars 2, which will also have some sort of expansions that will link. In that way, it's not changing.

It sounds like you want your cake and for it to be nutritious, too. You want all the carry-over from Guild Wars (weapons, armor, skills, professions, looks, etc); but you want all the new benefits of Guild Wars 2: New graphics, new mechanics, new items.

As far as we know, the two are not totally compatible. Now, it looks like we might be able to bring some items along after all. Does that change your opinon at all?

I did get your main point, but my concern wasn't over whether they did what they advertised. It's simply a good thing for me as a player that they allow characters to go over to other campaigns, and bad otherwise (which is the case for GW2).

I don't know where I gave the impression that I wanted everything to be transferred over. Again, the character and a story that makes sense for the character to have continued adventuring would be the most important.

You're right though that Anet decided they have a good enough base and can afford to stop developing GW1 (only to maintain it) and move onto a new series. We'll see how their cost and benefit analysis work out in a few years, but they clearly think they can either induce enough new players or keep enough of the existing playerbase for GW2, especially when you think of features like world-vs-world combat that requires a large number of active subscribers. Contrast that with the current ghost towns and dead elite missions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

We don't even know what the premise is yet!!! More random doom and gloom threads about a game 2 years away.

Looks like a random anti-doom post. Actually, we're just having a discussion here. And by the way, the premise is there for you to read in the PC Gamer article.

Croix_Raul · Apr 05, 2007, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

Of course you can keep them, not like they'd up and disappear when GW2 went live..

A slow death but a death never or less